Starcraft isn't about fanboys, the game IS really great; I didn't play it for a while (5 years or so?), but I still like to watch some progamer matchups on YouTube (from KlazartSC and others that do English commentaries)

Who ever says that game is unbalanced is wrong
One guy here said:


1. Move and shoot is possible, but it takes some micromanagement, if any unit could move and shoot by default, hand-to-hand units would never stand a chance unless they were a lot faster than shooting units, and that would make whole different game.
2. Units do react to getting shot at, how did you miss that I don't know.
3. You can put 12 units in group with all races, what are you talking about? As limit is 200 supply and most units take 2 supply, what's the problem? Learn some micromanagement and you're good to go!
4. Why would you want to queue beyond 5??? If you have 5 units in queue, there's something wrong with what you're doing, build some more factories or something. If you have the cash to spend for 5 units in queue, you're not a good player.
5. Why would you want formations in game where it takes micromanagement to do great battles? You do formations by hand!
6. Unit balance is the best part of Starcraft! I haven't seen the game so balanced as Starcraft.

You actually think these things make a good game?!?! Unit balance? Yeah, arbitrary unit balance that took how many patches over how many years?

I'm fine if people like StarCraft and think it is the most fun game they've ever played; but I am tired of them claiming it was perfect and trying to influence the development of every other game to make it a clone.

Seems hate blizzard bandwagon is full swing on these forums already. Will no internet forum be free of the mindless anti conformity zombies? Starcraft was good, whether or not you like it has no bearing here. It was successful. I don't care, blizzard doesn't care, the 10+ million people that WILL buy scII don't care what you think, or what you like. We care about what we like.

I can honestly say, if they gave starcraft the wc3 editor, I'd buy it for 50$. And you know what? As much as I like sins, I'd never go back. There is no RTS currently available to me, that I would ever play over starcraft with the wc3 editor. WC3 was nothing special, no one is crazy enough to suggest that. It was a solid game, nothing new, no super balance, a very good storyline. Solid game, nothing more. But battle.net and the warcraft three editor, and later the TFT editor. Gave that game staying power like none other, not many people play the melee. I know a hundred+ people that will occasionally load up wc3 and play a dota, or another custom game.

I've bought c&c3, sins, sup com, DoW. Name a big RTS title in the past couple years I bought it or I bought an earlier title of the franchise and didn't like it. Name most of the *small* rts titles I've bought them. But how much time did I spend on any of them big or small? 20-50 hours, at best. How many hours did I spend on starcraft and later warcraft (For some different reasons, and some the same) I couldn't tell you. I can't count that high. Those games were fun, you got bored of melee? Go find one of the SUPERB custom games made on the EXCEPTIONAL engine.

Out of all the RTS games I've bought, since wc3. I haven't seen a single map editor on par, or even 10 swings within it. Sins? The wc3 editor makes the galaxy forge look infantile. CC3? Don't get me started. Sup com? The game just wasn't good for editing comparatively, the editor was again, nowhere near the same level. DoW, game play didn't work, modding was excessively difficult compared to sc/wc3, and more restrictive.

In wc3 if you could do jass you could do anything but change the goddamn tileset. That engine was so robust, so goddamn close to PERFECT, that all these other games, their editors... just seem clunky and worthless. As a hardcore modder for all games I play regularly, the longevity of all of the listed games and more, would be so much higher if they could develop a good editor. And a battle.net clone would be welcome too, maybe add some new options, bigger friend list, whatever. But clone the damn thing, we all prefer it. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely crazy, battlenet was huge, it made getting games easy. And lets be honest, in a game like sins, the inability to p2p download galaxy forge maps... It makes the shitty editor not even worth using to begin with unless you can play in house games like I can thankfully. I feel sorry for the other people that use it maybe once, twice max for single player. Instead of the hundreds of replays I could get with my sc/wc3 maps.

I simply cannot stress how big the modding community is to the life of these games, the melee was great. Best of it's time, some people agree, some disagree. Whatever. It was successful. But if you try and argue against the fact that the game was amazing using the mod base as reasoning? Who the hell built the editor, and if it's so damn easy why does your fucking stardock still have pisspoor dev tools, and an infantile editor? I can do more in notepad than I can in that piece of shit. I don't care how they wanted the game made, I don't care if blizzard made the game with the modders in mind. But what I do care about is that for whatever reason, sc/wc3 have been amazingly easy to mod, and are so damn robust that you can do almost anything you could want. The editor made wc3 for me, the game was solid, but that editor, something no other company seems to be able to do right, plus the ability to SEAMLESSLY in all but a fraction of the cases transfer these maps while in game, not so much as alt tabbing, is huge.

I'll say again, the melee was good, I still think the best, for sc, and still above average for wc3, though no longer the best of it's time. I'm no fanboy, I liked sc/wc. It was the modders I loved. And by proxy blizzard simply because they built a simply astounding platform for these modders on top of solid-amazing games (Depending on who you ask). You cannot discard that blizzard made this platform, intentionally or not, they did. And they are responsible in large part for why I simply feel ICO and galaxy forge are just archaic, outdated pieces of shit. They delivered another solid game, but failed to deliver for the modders, and the game while I won't regret buying... Once I put it down once, I'll never pick it back up. I still play wc3 to this day once or twice a week at the very least, occasionally I'll find a custom map that I really like and play it a couple times a day for a while. I'll never find an amazing mod/map for sins. There will be good ones, but nothing like wc3, it simply isn't doable with the modders current resources, and that is no ones fault but the devs.

@Haeso

Long rant, but I totally agree. From what I've seen, modding SAVED WC3. Most ppl I know (granted, it's just a small subset of the WC3 population) bought WC3 JUST to play DOTA. They never touched campaign and played only a handful of melee games before never going back to them again.

WC3 editor is amazing.

You dont have to play or buySC 2, IMO W3 was awesome. I didnt like SC 1 as I barely played it, but i will probably buy SC 2. What you say or do here wont affect SC 2 in any way, I have nothing great to expect out of SC 2 so if I like or love it then I will like and love it.

I've been doing it ever since scII was announced and the blizzard hate bandwagon started up in earnest. I can't take the time or effort to seriously respond to these baseless and ignorant points the haters try and make. Trying to suggest the game isn't successful just makes me discredit anything someone says. If you don't like it cool, can respect that, want to point out a particular flaw? I probably won't agree it's a flaw, but cool I'll respect that too. But to try and suggest a difference between success and good? What world do these people fucking live in.

And yeah jinx, the wc3 editor like I said, just absolutely destroys anything else on the market. Have you ever done any jass? Or even just played with the triggers. The built in triggers, with anyone above plant level intelligence and some spare time... They can do almost anything, and the scripting expands it even more. It is just so user friendly, and so powerful... and no one else has been able to make anything even close to the same level, you build a new and better platform, those hardcore modders and their fanbase WILL follow.

GUESS WHAT NO ONE HAS YET. all these "amazing" and "better" games, had terrible mod tools, and nonexistant dev tools. The wc3 editor combined both, did it better than anyone else, and just.. yeah. I cannot describe how great it is, I just have to say: Go use the wc3 editor, then go use any other games editor.

And when you want to smash your face onto your desk because of all the simple features they lack, the advanced triggering, the zoning and last but far from least true SCRIPTING, that none of these have... Come back with an educated opinion instead of expressing how butthurt you are over your personal favorite RTS never taking off because there was a game that appealed to more people and therefore was BETTER by very definition of a business model. And guess what, your definition doesn't matter, the company, the employees and their families, their definition matters.

[/endrant]

Starcraft is one of the few games that caters to both the casual and hardcore gamer simultaneously inorder to command your units as one large group you just had to learn how to hit control+# to form a command group letting either the UI take over the small stuf or if you group correctly you can micromanage as much as you please.

and i must say that the editor in the original starcraft is still far more superior to what is available in sins especially with the on demand downloading of new maps for the game. every now and then you can see maps still being played that are modifications or even originals you created because good things dont die.

Though you may not believe it, I am sure a number of us don't hate Blizzard. What we hate is how Blizzard fanboys for the past decade have tried, and often succeeded, at turning many games we were hopeful for into nothing but a clone of StarCraft...a game we thought was mediocre and clunky at best. If you like StarCraft fine, a lot of people do; we just want those people to actually let some diversity develop in the genre. Instead of going "but StarCraft" every time a new game is announced. To the original posters credit, this is not what he is saying, but I guarantee if you look back into the archives of most RTS game forums you'll find what I am talking about before Blizzard bashing...in fact, it is usually what incites it.



StarCraft wasn't the only game to do this, it probably wasn't even the first, and other games (TA) you weren't limited on how many units you could select at a given time and could have units move and shoot at the same time. It's been so long for me, did StarCraft even have patrol routes? What about air units or artillery? I've seen rather in-depth, well-thought-out rants about how if StarCraft's interface didn't force the user to work so much harder than they should have had to, its flaws would've been apparent to all. I have neither the inclination, ability, nor memory to reproduce it here; but the last post I responded to is evidence of this perception people seem to have of StarCraft's flaws actually being good things.

Not the response to Haeso's post in this post, the response in my previous post.

A world where "success" and "good" are not equivalent. "Success" is success and it may be "better" for the developers and publishers, and even more popular to its target audience; but that does not make it "good" in the sense of having a quality interface. We live in a world where shows like "American Idol" and professional wrestling are successful and popular, that does not make them good though.

They also excel at turning people's attention from cool games that have recently appeared, to Starcraft. Unfortunatly, many of these fanboys have power (PC Gamer for a start). Thanks to them, the chances of a game being unique are often squashed.

People are also stopped from buying new and cool games by BlizzCon. This conventions main purpose is to rub other developers faces in the dirt. No other developer has anything like this, so they aren't as big. BlizzCon also shows how over rated the games are, and how pathetic some of the fan boys can be (dressing up and all that).

Wow, when did playing games on a PC or otherwise become a cult? Nothing is every really the BEST of anything, they all do things well or poorly. The whole attempt to play a game is to have fun. Now when you try to say best of or anything else you are missing the entire point - Was this game fun?

Starcraft 2 will probably be a fun game for many and seeing from the above comments more fodder for some holy quest to prove their game is better. Whatever, you bought the game and you played it. Did you have fun? If you are looking for spiritual guidance, your future, lotto numbers, etc. from a game you are really asking allot. I mean you could start a thread is white bread the best bread. Again its bread people, it has a use, not something you worship blindly.

In my gaming life (which is over 30 years now) I can say that there are still games for the Atari 2600 that are more fun than games of today. Maybe because back then you tried to make games fun and not try to hide some half baked idea behind pretty pictures. Will I buy Starcraft 2, yes I believe it will have an interesting story that will be FUN for me to enjoy. When thats done, I am off to something else.

Best of, is like any debate on religion, politics, morals, etc. everyone has an opinion, but come on people its only a game. Play the damn thing and have fun or better yet shut off the PC go outside and enjoy nature, something fun, come on now, that is what games are for...FUN.

Proof please.

I disagree with all of that. Blizzard's fanboys or Blizzard are not responsible for all the Starcraft clones games. Or WOW clones either. Rather its the very same developers who are to blame. Trying to copy Blizzard formula so that they themselves can have success and money, only to end up copying it badly. Rather than coming up with something original and fun on its own. Besides Starcraft there is COH, SupCom, Total War, EU, GalCiv2, SOASE, DOW, WIC, etc. Besides WOW there is EVE, Tabula Rasa, POTBS, etc.

Now, if you simply have a grudge against Blizzard and Starcraft, because you hate the game but it's still quite popular. Then I must say frankly, shut up and move along to the games you like and leave the rest of the "fanboys". Hopefully they won't follow you and thus nobody will bother anybody. And all will be well.

I Don't like total Micromanagement but I do like some, as there was in Galactic Civ 2. I liked the GC 2 management but I hated how you had to design ships.

And also I think Micromanagement is great for smaller scenario's but I hate to manage EVERYTHING when I have 20 planets under my control and have three fronts to fight on.

LOL, you didn't read my post - I never played SC. I was saying that most RTS games have this odd form of false tactics, and SoaSE it better because it does not.

- PR-0927

Behold - the exact point where everyone realized what a complete fucking tool you are.

"Anyone who doesn't think Starcraft was the BEST RTS GAME EVER because it INVENTED RTS and it was the FIRST GAME TO HAVE COLORS and it was the FIRST PROGRAM EVER MADE TO UTILIZE A MOUSE clearly is a retard, who hates Blizzard, and they actually just LOVE Starcraft but they're trying to be ANTI-CONFORMIST LOL because Starcraft TOTALLY CAME PACKAGED WITH THE ENTIRE INTERNET FOR FREE OMG"